The track day GSi - going back to black!!

[Ferret]

dude sorry to here that, after all that running about and renting the van. Hope to see it running again soon.

[Scatmancraig]

dude sorry to here that, after all that running about and renting the van. Hope to see it running again soon.

It'll be back, meaner than ever!

Wont be doing anything on it though till i've cleared my scrap shed out a bit.  Got two Monza's to dispose of, one's already fairly well stripped, the other is still complete!  Scrap price is £160 per tonne for mix metal (i.e. a complete car with all the trim etc), i chucked a load of scrap in the Cavalier Diesel when i took that the other week & ended up with £217.60 in my back pocket!  I couldn't have sold it for that privately!!

[HMK]

When I read you'd got an engine with a top end rebuild done, I really should have posted & told you to replace the crank bearings if there was no mention of them having been done already. A top end rebuild & especially when the head is skimmed, always puts excess extra load on an already weak & worn bottom end due to the increased compression ratio

I've always said this - & it goes right back to the old 3.3 litre straight six engines fitted to the Viscounts/Crestas - & that is that the bottom end of ALL these six pots are weak & at anything over 50k the crank will fail if the engine is driven hard....no doubt there will be a few that will jump on me here to disagree

Easy for me to say after the event, but it's a pity you didn't pop the sump off it & replace at least the big end bearings. You could probably get away without doing the mains, even though if worn they would drop the oil pressure a bit, with the very slight risk of letting the crank flex & fracture under extreme revs - unusual, but possible. Mains will rumble on, but once a big end knocks, then that really is the end of the engine.

You probably wouldn't get away with it with modern electronic engine control systems, but what I used to do was pull the plug lead off from both ends & run the engine on five cylinders. If it's really bad, then remove the spark plug altogether to take all the load of the bad bearing & just let the bad piston float off load...& if you were worried about anything being sucked back into an open cylinder (like unburnt fuel), then on an 'old skool' engine you could wind the rockers off so that the valves on the bad cylinder would stay closed - you'd be surprised at how many motorway miles I've driven on five out of six cylinders after I've knocked a big end out - frightening to think about it now.....I wouldn't dare do it now & probably couldn't with modern engine management as so many other things are affected when one cylinder goes down - but might be interesting to try

Anyway, you've got a good crank in your other engine that came out, so just get a set of new bearing shells & fit the other crank - Or, if you didn't allow the bearing that's gone to knock itself right out, then just clean up the journal & fit new shells to the same crank....but you will have to run them in to 'work harden' the white metal before you thrash it again - I've done this in the past & it worked for me

BTW, I hear you met my mate Mr 'Yellow Vauxhall Viva Man' the other day down at Brian T's place.

[Scatmancraig]

I now have a spare crank donated to me.  I may get this checked over & have a new set of shells to go with it.  Trouble is, my local engine place (Nu-line on George St - right opposite where i work) has closed now, & i don't know anywhere in Lincoln that would be trusted to do engine work properly.

I have also been offered an 80k block & bottom end.  I have 2 good heads so should be able to build up a reasonable engine without too much outlay. 

But don't rule out something out of the oridinary just yet.  I'm keeping my eyes out for a gold-top 12v.  Chuck a Monza flywheel & Getrag 265 box on it & i have a good strong track car.  Ok so it wont be as quick, but it wont be far off!!

I have met Viva man a few times recently.  Shame Brian's tyre place has closed now!

[Pedro]

Chevy mouse motor, mate.......................

[Scatmancraig]

Chevy mouse motor, mate.......................

Whats that in English??!!

[HMK]

Nu-Line closed That really is a 'sign of the times'

It shows how there just isn't the demand for that sort of work anymore. Cranks that shouldn't be re-ground & heads that are not recommended to be skimmed - also, engines that last 200k without trouble....a sign of the times, indeed

I used to go to Dave Houghton when he owned Butler Engineering at Heighington. I guess that all the engineering equipment is still there, unless Mr Clayton sold it since he took it over, so it might be worth asking him if he does any engine work etc.

Yeah, I know Brian's place has closed - that green Carlton's gone too. All the other stuff is still there though, & will be for a while yet, I think.

Viva man was round here this afternoon scouring ebay for a 80's BMW 316 auto (he's had them before) to use as a lazy runabout so he can finish off the re-spray on the Viva....well, the Jeep is no good in the wet weather & the Chevy is.....well, BIG

[Pedro]

Chevy mouse motor, mate.......................

Whats that in English??!!

5.7 V8

Mouse motor, LS1 or small block - up to about 5.7 litres as found in many a Monaro right back to the Tri-Chevys of the 50's (Tri-Chevy vintages 1955 - 57) Chevy. Basically same block design, in iron or aluminiuim.

Rat motors (big blocks), over 5.7 litres(I think) were once available in 9 litre guises..........

[Scatmancraig]

Time for an update!

After much deliberation, i have decided to go for a gold-top 3.0 12v engine swap!  Several reasons, one is that to rebuild a 24v is going to cost more than i can afford.  & that's assuming that i can put the whole lot together without doing something wrong & having to start all over again!!  Another reason is that after 2 failed 24v's, i simply don't want the headache of worrying about head gaskets and timing chains.  The 3.0 12v gold-top engine is about the best 12v  around (excluding Irmscher engines) and there's still a few of them about if you know what you're looking for!  The gold-top kicks out 177bhp as standard, but when decatted put's out around 190 which is fairly close to 24v power.  Fitted in a lightweight shell, i doubt if i'll notice the difference between it and a standard 24v GSi!

So for the last month or so i have been keeping a close eye on ebay for gold-top engined Senators.  There's been none for ages, then 4 came along within the space of a week!  I originally was bidding on an 80k one in nottingham, but bidding went too high & finished at £428.  Another one in Gainsborough went for £500.  I ended up with one that had 93k on the clocks for £215!  Main reason for it being so cheap was that it had dodgy brakes & non-functioning electric windows!  Downside was that it was in Southampton which is near enough dead on 200 miles from Lincoln!

I went to pick up the Senator on Saturday, & was pleasantly suprised.  The bodywork is very good, rear arches obviously having been replaced & work done to a reasonable standard, apart from one arch is a different shape to the other!!

Have a look & see for yourselves...












After getting the car home i fired it up & went for a drive (thrash).  This car is certainly quick, probably the quickest 12v i've driven & this is a fully-specced Senator CD model with the cats still fitted!  I was almost tempted to fix the brakes, tax it & run it as it is.  But i really want my GSi back on the road so it has to be broken.  I know there's a few years life left in this car as it is, but gold-tops are not that common & i'm not sure how long i would have to wait for the next one to come along!

Yesterday i started to disconnect everything needed in order to remove the engine.  Today i actually did remove the engine....




I kind of cheated here by cutting the slam panel as i couldn't get the gearbox high enough to clear it!!




Autobox removed...


& one nice sweet gold-top ready for the GSi (almost)...


The next job is to decide what manual gearbox to use as i have a choice!  Option one is to stick with the same R28 box i had on the 24v engine.  To do this, all i need is a 12v DMF which i have already sourced from an ABS member.  Option two would be to fit a Getrag 265 gearbox from a Monza.  To do this i would need a cable clutch pedal box (plenty of those around off 2.0 cars), a Monza flywheel & clutch, and a custom propshaft.  The end result would be a much stronger gearbox more suited for the type of abuse i'll be hurling at it.  The only downside will be that the Monza clutch is not very strong, and the extra power of the gold-top would probably kill the clutch fairly quickly.  So i have decided to stick with the original gearbox for now, & try and collect the rest of the parts needed for the Getrag 265 conversion, which would also have to include some kind of uprated clutch.

For now i am going to strip what i need off the Senator & then weigh it in hopefully next weekend.  Current scrap prices are so good i can't afford not to!  I scrapped the remains of a Monza on Saturday & price was £185 per tonne for complete cars.  Will need to remember to remove the fuel pipes from the Senator as this is the main problem with the 12v, the fuel lines are on the opposite side!  Either this or try & fit 2.6 12v pipes.

More soon!!

[Johnraka]

From the little bit I can see of those leather seats they look in surprisingly good nick, are they?

[Scatmancraig]

From the little bit I can see of those leather seats they look in surprisingly good nick, are they?

The front seats are wrecked.  It looks like the leather has never been fed since the car left the factory!  The interior isn't the best, it's been a smokers car & there's fag ash everywhere!  Rear seats are ok, but still not the best i've seen.

[Scatmancraig]

Time for another update....

Made a bit of progress over the last few weeks, although it has felt a bit slow at times!  I've had a lot on lately so not much chance to get things sorted out.

As i left it, i'd removed the gold-top 12v engine from the donor Senator.  Now it was the turn of the semi-dead 24v lump to be removed from the GSi...






Next job was to swap the gearbox from the 24v to the 12v engine.  I have of course already fitted the 12v DMF to the gold-top engine!


Before fitting the engine & gearbox i gave the injectors a clean & renewed all of the o-rings...


Then i had to swap the downpipes.  I was going to use the 24v ones on the 12v engine, however the diameter of the 24v downpipes is slightly larger, which would mean that the fit to the 12v manifold would be too loose & wouldn't seal properly.  this meant that i also had to get a set of cat replacement pipes, as my 24v downpipes had been modified in such a way that cat replacement pipes were not needed!  You can see what i mean in this next photo...


You can also see, just, the difference between the 12v gold-top and 24v downpipe diameters...


So with those jobs out of the way it was time ti fit the engine.  This was fairly straightforward, if a little awkward getting the position of the engine exactly right so it could be lowered on to the mounts.  But i got there in the end...




For the time being i was going to try & use a modified 24v engine loom with the 12v ECU fitted.  This plan was working ok, the wiring was a little untidy but i managed to get everything where it should be, just...


When i tried to start the engine i got fuel but no sparks!.  I couldn't understand why so i decided to fit the correct loom which had been away at a friends to have all of the unecessary autobox wiring removed.  But when i fitted this loom it still wouldn't start!  Then i discovered that i had the plugs for the throttle switch and the crank sensor the wrong way round!  Opps!  It would have been nice to find this out beofre i'd destroyed a crank sensor swapping it because i thought that it was at fault!  Still, i live & learn! 

After fitting the wiring the correct way round, it started!!!  Woo-Hoo!!!  It sounded pretty good too, idle speed was varying a bit, but i'd sure it'll settle down.  Even my strut brace still fits, which is handy because i can use it to attach my extended fuel pipes too.  Remember that the car still has 24v pipes fitted, which are fixed to the nearside of the car.  The 3.0 12v pipes should be on the offside.  So i've removed the rubber pipes and used 2 metre lengths of rubber fuel hose, clipped them to the strut brace for security and the problem is sorted...




I still need to put the rest of the car back together before i can get it MOT'd.  There isn't much left to do though, think it needs a new set of drop links, not a problem as i have 3 pairs thanks to some forgetful ebay bidding!!!  Also need to get some holes under where the rear seat used to be welded back up, i made the hole with a chisel when i was trying to remove the tar pads!!!  Only a 5 minute job to someone with a welder!!

So i'm hoping to get the GSi back on the road by a week on Saturday as i want to take it to the ABS rolling road day, would be a good chance to see exactly what a de-catted gold-top will put out, especially when i put the ABS mk2 chip inside the ECU!!!!

[Whippit]

Wotcha doing with the box outta the senny
And are them back seats dark grey?

[Scatmancraig]

Wotcha doing with the box outta the senny
And are them back seats dark grey?

The box out of the Senny, AR25, has already been sold to diplomat2.6 a while ago!  Seats were chucked, they weren't that good. They were light grey as well, the worst colour!  Dark grey are only on prefacelift Senny's, i.e those without the centre horseshoe and rear spoiler.

[Whippit]

Aye I should have twigged the box went to dippy,
I actually had a set of Dark grey but gave them away

Suppose its the fronts I should change to get it back to original but they are in such good nick

[Scatmancraig]

Getting very close to MOT time now.

Tonight i have finished under the bonnet, changed the plugs, leads, dizzy cap and rotor arm. I have a new ECU temp sensor and lamda too, but i'm going to wait till the rolling road day to fit them, if we get 4 runs it will be interesting to see if putting new ones on makes any difference? Am also picking up a new crank sensor up tomorrow (it currently has a 24v one on which works but doesn't fit properly), only £20 + vat from my local factors, bargain!!

Also had time to to re-fit the bonnet, bumper, grille and undertray, even had time to fit the new drop links. One of them knocks slightly so i thought it wise to do both just in case! The only slight worry for the MOT is that the track rod ends are a little slack, not sure what the pass standard is, i will risk them & if they fail i'll just replace the complete control arms on both sides.

Took the car for a test drive, it certainly isn't slow!! Power delivery is nice & smooth too. No unusual noises or leaks either which is a bonus! Just need to sort out a decent set of wheels & tyres, most of my good ones have gone a bit flat from being stood around for so long!

I reckon that i may just be able to get it in for test either tomorrow or Saturday morning, fingers crossed!!

[Scatmancraig]

Jesus, it only went and passed first go!!!

Took it to a local place this afternoon, they only do MOT's and nothing else so less of a chance of them failing it on something daft just so they can get the extra work.

Got a couple of advisories, rear tyre crack (which i already knew about), rear seats missing and rear seatbelts missing!  Well thats pretty much the point being how this is a track car!!!

So now i possibly have the only 24v GSi that has been converted to 12v, as well as having been converted to manual twice!!!

[Pedro]

Nice one Craig!

 

[chrismec]

Well done Craig

[Scatmancraig]

Why thank you all.  I was quite impressed when i called them to see how it got on.  It's a brand new testing place & they have the new "shaker plates" which really test the suspension.  I put new drop links on, but the rest is as i got it.  The front Bilstein shockers have been on the car over 10 years & still appear to be good, the handling is the best i've known for a GSi!!!

Lets see if this engine lasts a bit longer than the last 2 did!!!

[chrismec]

Lets see if this engine lasts a bit longer than the last 2 did!!!

A bit less right foot Craig?

Nah don't be silly

[biffbangpow]

nice 1 craig , lots of good work there , just dont stuff it next time out LOL

[Ferret]

you said in one of your posts that you had a mate cut your old auto loom apart yo leave the manual loom left, any idea how this was done id like to try this myself?

[Scatmancraig]

This weekend i went to a rolling road day in Essex, along with about 15 other ABS members. 

Had a good journey down first thing on Saturday morning, the A1 was very quiet so i gave it some beans.  The car will very nearly hit the rev-limiter in top gear!!  Only problem was a slight flat spot and the EML light coming on, i think my lamda may well be on the way out.  When i got to Birchanger services, another ABS member plugged his Tech 1 into my car and confirmed that my lamda was very nearly dead.  The test also showed that my CTS s ensor was over-reading.  No problems as i had new ones in the car!!

Attampted to change the lamda sensor in the car park of the roling road place.  Got the old lamda moving about a quarter of a turn but no more.  Then my trolley jack decided to give up, i wondered why i kept getting stuck underneat (i thought i must be too fat!).  So i borred a big trolley jack from the rolling road owner, and managed to get some decent leverage on the old lamda.  It came out, but without the thread!  That was still well & truly stuck in the hole!  So i was advised to go and see the rolling road guys dad who was also running the burger van!  He had a fairly decent machine shop next door, apprently he makes jacks for planes!!  He had a good rummage for a suitabple tap so i could re-thread the hole ready for the new lamda.  Luckily for me he found one in the last box he had to look in, it worked a treat, even with me using an ordinary spanner to turn it because there was no room for the tap handle.  So the lamda was done.  CTS was a doddle, i soon had that replaced.  RWe plugged the tech 1 in again and it showed that my new lamda was working perfectly, and my CTS was reading 92 (it was previously showing 113 on a warmed engine).

Some pics from the rolling road day...

Posing in the Total Vauxhall photo spot:


On the rollers:



My highest reading on the day was 169.7bhp.  This does sound low, however everyone elses readings were also low, the best 24v was a totally standard Senator that put out just short of 198bhp.  Although my power output was a little lower that i would have liked, the curve was very smooth and the operator said that there was only very slight overfuelling.  A new air filter maybe would have helped, it was the only service item that i didn't replace, mainly because i forgot!!

On the journey home the car drove much better, no hesitency at all, just smooth power!!  Ok so it isn't the quickest car ever, certainly would go a lot better with the original 24v in it, but now i have a good strong engine which doesn't smoke and goes like it should.  I really can't wait till October 12th & see what it goes like at Marham (if i don't get banned first!!!)

[carlton_mad]

get the track car towed to marham !!